Quarterbacking

"It's time to stir the pot of controversy"

In this weeks Tabletop Gaming topical discussions Ian & Jason try to steer clear of controversy as they tackle the tough subject of those annoying quarterback players. No we have not gone all sports podcast on you.

Quarterbacking is a term used to describe players who try to take over the game and play your turns for you. they talk about how to spot this behaviour, deal with it, and even be understanding of it. :o

+++++++++++++++++++++++++  NEWS  +++++++++++++++++++++++++

Paul is also back with his faithful rubber duck Brian in the news shed to bring you all the news, crowdfunding campaigns & event information we think you need to know about. including but not limited too.

• Space Invaders The Board Game by 612 Entertainment,
• LLC / Sirus Ahmadi 
• Red Rising by Stomemaier Games
• Marvel Smash Up by AEG and The Op
• DC Dark Knights Metal Deck Building Game by Cryptozoic
• Threepia by FamFun
• Summoner Wars Second Edition by Plaid Hat Games
• Pokemon Sword & Shield Elite Trainer Boxes, Zacian, Zamazenta
• Horns Up! The Lacuna Coil Official Card Game by Labmasu
• Quad City Killers by Barely Suitable Games
• AMASS First Game by Dark Frontier Games

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Transcript

Jason: 0:18

What is up guys, welcome to the Meeple Minded podcast, the podcast where we talk all things tabletop gaming, my name is still

Ian: 0:25

Jason and I may in and along with Paul, join us as we Bumble our way through the gaming industry. So Pop the keetle on, grab a brew, and let's get on with today's discussion.

Jason: 0:35

Yes, today's discussion. I think it's gonna be a good one to be fair. But before we get to that, how are you today?

Ian: 0:42

Yeah, not too bad. Slowly catching up with life.

Jason: 0:45

Yeah, or is life catching up with you. That's,

Ian: 0:48

that's the real we're both plodding my way to the end of one job to start a new one.

Jason: 0:55

Can't complain that you've been looking for a new job for a while. So

Ian: 0:58

I have I do have something funny, though, is I applied for the vaccination role for the NHS back in January. Went through the entire process, and basically telling me I've got a job. I'll be in contact with you shortly. seven weeks later, I got a letter through the poster. We don't need you anymore.

Jason: 1:14

Oh, wow. Okay, fair enough.

Ian: 1:17

That's three months after I started the application. Nice. Lucky I got another job. So it's

Jason: 1:26

a very good job. You didn't hold out for that? Or didn't have my note is in for that.

Ian: 1:29

We've done like about a month ago.

Jason: 1:32

Yeah, exactly. That's that's not good at all. But that was said, Oh, things silver lining. You have got another job anyway, I have. Good. I mean, I'm personally I've been counting down the days till we can come out of our little hidey holes. You know, where are Meeple Minded merch available now on the made by Meeple? Amazon store cha ching. Got it in there.

Ian: 1:57

That one's for you Paul. There we go.

Jason: 2:01

But yeah, obviously, I can't wait to get out there and actually, finally get to see our beloved friends and family that, you know, we haven't seen in what feels like a century at this point.

Ian: 2:13

You have friends?

Jason: 2:13

Well, I say that. I mean, I mean, the people that come to my clubs, you know? Hello, Kickstarters anonymous members there. But yeah, I know you've been playing a lot of our home recently. But if you had any interest peaking with the up and coming game releases, or am I not allowed to remind you that Robinson Crusoe has just hit game found?

Ian: 2:32

Yeah, don't. I love that game, and I probably will have a peek.

Jason: 2:38

Those minis do look rather swish. I'm not gonna lie.

Ian: 2:41

But no, I'm talking about Kickstarter, though. We finally got a Kickstarter the both of us did that. We backed in 2018, up to almost last days. And I must admit, first impressions. I'm very, very, very impressed.

Jason: 2:56

Yeah, I've got to admit I've done I've had a good look at all the all the boxes that turned up. And I think it's going to be worth the way I was starting to think it was never going to turn up. But yeah, xerography first impressions, that's absolutely fantastic. I really like the card game version, as in the small, small box version of it as well. But the meeples come in the full size are amazing.

Ian: 3:20

I just like the fact that we have a expansion for it. We got a collector's box from our packages as well. As Jason said, the card game version means we almost have like a travel edition of the game. And there's they're even putting a note saying there's a space for expanded expansion that's due in the box as well. So they've already future proofed it as well.

Jason: 3:39

Yeah. I mean, say top marks for that, you know, it's one of the things we're constantly moan about as game is that they do not leave you enough room in those boxes, the fact that they've future proofed it to the point of, we know we've got it, we're going to do another expansion, so we'll just make sure there's enough space in there for when that comes out, because then they're more likely to buy it anyway. I think that was a good business decision. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very, very impressed. I

Ian: 4:03

cannot wait. And I think the slough Meeple is going to be with me always fit. Yeah, we're reserve judgement till we actually had the ability to try it. But with both of us having a copy and it being on TTS, if I believe it is, indeed, I don't think it'll be long before we start having a few playthroughs of it. And once we've done that, I have sure you guys will hear all about it in full

Jason: 4:25

indeed, yes. There will be a couple of videos going up on the YouTube channel about it. And I'm gonna bet we'll talk about it on the podcast as well. So yeah, listen and watch out for more. But anyway, shall we get on to the main topic of today?

Ian: 4:40

Yeah, I get the feeling it's going to be a little bit of a controversial one.

Jason: 4:43

Yeah, let's stir up some controversy. We'll be going nearly a year I think it's about time we stick our our pokey sticks into the controversy bin. What do you think?

Ian: 4:53

Yeah. Make the change from using the pokey bows. Dear one joking.

Jason: 5:04

I apologise on behalf of the Meeple Minded to the viewers out there for that terrible, terrible, punny. Well, punishment that you've just gone through.

Ian: 5:13

You started it.

Jason: 5:15

I did. I apologise.

Ian: 5:17

This is a really terribly new Ender in there too, but we'll leave it at that.

Jason: 5:20

Yeah, yeah, we'll leave it at that. So the main topical discussion of this week, yeah, as human beings, we're pretty susceptible to forming bad habits, I think. And in almost everything we do. So that got us thinking, What bad habits can we really, really form within tabletop gaming? Yeah.

Ian: 5:41

So there are many out there. And this isn't just a dig at any one person or anything particular one of the biggest hack bad habits that we've had recently, coming from the fact that both of us to love our cooperative games is something called quarterbacking.

Jason: 5:54

Yes, yes. Yeah. As Ian said, We're both huge fans of cooperative games and quarterbacking can be a real bugbear pet peeve involved in CO operative games. And yeah, it can ruin the game for a lot of people.

Ian: 6:12

I'm sure this will come up later. But I have actually had again, where I have got up and walked away due to this. So yeah, this is why I said this is going to be potentially quite a controversial subject. You know, we said there's loads of these bad habits that can come up into full blown episodes. We didn't want to, we don't want to be here for hours. But we figured this one has come up a couple of times. And is it's worth talking about and why what it is and why it sounds like it's something different. Yeah,

Jason: 6:40

yeah, definitely. It is far, far too common amongst the tabletop industry. So it's one that we have to talk about. And it was probably always going to be the first one we were talking about as well, being so close to our hearts. So I guess the first question is, what is quarterbacking? Would you like to explain it here?

Ian: 6:58

Yep. So quarterbacking is as we just said, is more often than not happens in the CO operative games. And it's when one or more players try to take over the group and determine and tell every other player what to do. term itself actually comes from the American football where the quarterback leads the offensive players in the team?

Jason: 7:18

Yep, exactly. So it is exactly as it says on the tin. You know, it's one or multiple players, telling other people what to do. And essentially taking all of their decisions away. And if you're not making decisions, are you even playing the game anymore? Oh, you just sat there watching someone else play a game? Yeah. So yeah. That's, that's what that's what quarterbacking is. But it is hard to actually tell sometimes. What if someone is actually quarterbacking or whether you're even quarterbacking because some people do it without even knowing that they're doing it. Maybe you're just very passionate about the game, and feel like you're helping but not actually realising how intrusive you're actually coming across to those other players.

Ian: 8:05

I'll also bring in now this will probably come up later, when teaching good and cooperative games. It can be easy to set up quarterbacking and and continue to do so.

Jason: 8:16

Yes, this indeed. So yeah. How can you tell if someone is quarterback? And well? To be honest, that question is actually a lot harder than you think. Because it can easily be confused with a player that just wants to help everyone or someone who has more experience in the game in question. But as I said, the the telltale signs are out there to look for and the first one that you really need to look for is someone is is basically trying to tell everyone how to take their turn without first being asked for suggestions. Generally, if you're there to help, it's okay. You'll usually be asked for your help, or they'll ask for your suggestions. Whereas if someone is jumping straight in before you've even had a chance to say what you're thinking about doing that is very, very reminiscent of someone who is trying to quarterback the game.

Ian: 9:04

Yeah, it's taking control out of the player. The player in questions turn. You know, if if me and Jason are playing a cooperative game and I was quarterbacking when when it becomes Jason's characters turn, I would straight very we saying to him, right you need to do this, this, this and this for your turn. And straightaway he's got nothing. The different way to tackle this. And again, we're going to more detail later. But there's a difference between me telling him exactly what to do, or waiting for him to decide what to do and then maybe saying there are other suggestions, seeing if he wants to hear them and then leading on that way.

Jason: 9:41

The next one will be as long as I've deemed recently as taking the Mandalorian approach. This is

Ian: 9:47

the way

Jason: 9:48

this is the way their way or the highway basically,

Ian: 9:51

I have spoken

Jason: 9:55

we apologise if no one out here is seeing the Mandalorian they are All quotes from the Mandalorian. Go watch it. It's awesome.

Ian: 10:04

Disney plus we want them to sponsor.

Jason: 10:07

Oh, yeah, we probably should say at this point, this podcast is not sponsored by Disney. However, if they would like to sponsor us, we are more than open to suggestions. So yeah, essentially, someone who is going on the lines of it's their way or the highway, basically, that is full blown quarterbacking. And yeah, you should knock them down. not physically, obviously.

Ian: 10:36

The next one, they will get incredibly defensive when you try to talk about their game strategies. Generally, a quarterback a won't really want to justify why they're, they're saying what they are saying, This continues the previous thing of my way or the highway. You know, it's if you're not adopting their strategy and questioning it, you know, then they they still think their way is the only way to win the game. Yeah. And that's that that can be an issue. And I've seen people physically throw up games, because they purposely wanted to play something different to what was continuously being suggested, because they got fed up.

Jason: 11:15

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then the final one, again, it kind of it moves on from that. One is if you decide to not do what they're what they suggest, they get incredibly offended, and as in said that they will ever start throwing the game. Or they'll get worse. Which is, it's never any fun for any anyone when that starts happening. So it's just, it's one of those things. The key thing to remember, with tabletop gaming, it's a game. And if, if a player doesn't get to take their own turns and make their own choices, then they may as well not be playing. And if, if people aren't enjoying the game, then it's not. It's not fun, which is the whole point.

Ian: 12:00

Yeah, imagine it. Imagine a game like pandemic, for example, the whole point of the game, is to have five, the symptomatic point of the game is to have up to five minds trying to work out how to cure the cure the pandemics, you know, if you've got one person controlling the other four, it's not five minds or trying to work together and come up with theories and stuff. You know, luckily, in a semantic point, as well as gain point, the whole joy is said I know we're using co workers can be done in PvP as well. But specifically, it's more common in Co Op because you all have to work together and is easy for one or two people to railroad a game. Also don't point out can be railroaded by then the other players, you know, having people play for them, because they might not feel that they understand what's going on. But it's easy to get into get into that comfortable seat without realising it that you're in control control of everyone.

Jason: 12:55

Yep. Yep. So obviously, we alluded to the fact that it is sometimes very difficult to tell if someone is quarterbacking and I guess the next question is when is someone not quarterbacking and I mean, the first one would be quarterbacking games is not the same as participating in a discussion. And what the group could or should do next. That's actually just the inherent nature of a cooperative game.

Ian: 13:24

So again, this is going to come up multiple times, because the way we're tackling this, but it brings back to my point of, you know, the quarterback, suggesting stuff not telling demanding stuff, and making sure that everyone gets to come up with their own ideas of what they want to do, you know, and then as a group trying to work out what's the best thing we can do? It may well be the quarterback, his idea that is actually the best thing to do. But if they're demanding things need to be done, you'll often find people won't do it because they're fed up of the lack of control they have.

Jason: 13:57

Yeah, and I suppose the The only other one that really sticks in my mind at the moment is something that Ian did touch on earlier, which was coaching, and helping new players or, or experienced players that just aren't used to play in that particular game. So if someone is stuck on what to do, because they haven't played the game before, or is maybe not as experienced as the other players, someone offering to help and give suggestions is not the same thing as quarterbacking because as he said, there is a huge difference between suggestions and demands.

Ian: 14:31

There's also a very good way to deal with players that rely heavily on everyone else to play for them. And that's when it's their turn. Ask them to suggest first what they think they should be doing and why Yeah, in the game. Normally you can understand why someone doesn't want to engage, because they don't understand something that you know one aspect of the game and are too frightened often to say anything or don't want to look silly. So if you can try and get them to justify what they're doing. If they wish to, they don't have to. But if they want to, you can often try and piece together where, what they're thinking, what they're struggling with, what they're not struggling with, and where they're heading with the game, so that they might figure out why the strategies are different. While different things may or may not be better or worse, and let them decide at the end of the day, don't tell them. Especially when you get someone in this position, let them pick what they want to do. And the whole group takes on the consequences, you can then explain later why you might have thought something's different, or where to work better. But if people can physically see it all in action, everyone's part of the game. And it can actually make the game harder or easier, you know, by making mistakes as part of life. Yeah,

Jason: 15:42

you learn from our mistakes. And it's no different in games, you know, people have to play games, they have to live, they have to learn how, how these games work, and the only way to do that is to fail. It may not be fun. I personally, I love losing a cooperative game, cuz it's usually absolutely hilarious. But you know, some people, it's not as fun. So we get it, we do get it. But as we said, people that quarterback aren't necessarily bad people,

Ian: 16:13

they often don't realise they're doing it. Exactly,

Jason: 16:16

yeah. And on those lines, they would actually be mortified to find out that they are actually causing distress to other players, you know, for these people that don't know that they're doing it. Yeah. So sometimes, it just needs to be highlighted, nicely, not tackled in in an aggressive way or anything like that. So but we'll get to, we'll get to dealing with that. Yeah, there was something else I'd seen online, I've never had this discussion in person. And that is the people actually blame the games and the game mechanics, I have to disagree. I'm sorry. But I have to disagree on that. I sort of I do get the argument. But I disagree.

Ian: 16:59

I think you'll find it is often dependent on the group you're playing with knowing everyone inside out in the group, how people's personalities gel well together. And balancing that and knowing how to react, I can see why people can think it could be a games fault. Because if a game makes you have to work together, especially if there's a co op variant with a traitor or something mechanic in it, you know, when you you can't always trust the people you're working with. So there's an extra sort of level in there. But you still need to know, you know, I can think of various groups that I've played with, and still play with to this day where there are more stronger and louder characters playing than others. And those struggled to come to terms with some of the games than others. And it's finding that balance of knowing you have these people in your group, knowing what they like what they dislike, and being prepared to work with them to make sure they actually get incorporated into it. Or if you know you've got these people around you or you spot this happening, push them slightly to get involved. And again, as I said, sort of ask why what they could do, why? What options do they have? And then start suggesting stuff if you think it might detriment the whole game, but even then try and resist the urge to do that

Jason: 18:12

mutual assistance in working towards a common goal is literally written in the dictionary can't really say you can't really argue it can you

Ian: 18:22

know, but on the flip side, everyone has to be on the same page is the one time I can argue it's people let themselves, you know, don't want to take part in the first place that can often draw out a quarterback.

Unknown: 18:34

Yes, yeah,

Jason: 18:35

I do have to agree with that one. So we know that they exist, we know there's not really a way around it. So how do you handle being quarterbacked by someone else? There are a few things you can do that won't cause conflict.

Ian: 18:49

So first one is ask them to explain their suggestions. You know, as we said earlier, they might be right. And they may have a really good game plan. But if you ask them nicely to explain why they might try and give you a little bit more space, realising you're on the same page as them, or you may bring it into a full group discussion,

Jason: 19:08

which really is what it should be in the first place. So yeah, doesn't hurt to ask them to explain their suggestions. I think the next one was, I mean, this one I don't particularly suggest straightaway, but don't do what they tell you. So yeah, I mean, hear me out. It's this needs to be the last resort because if all else fails, something that would drive them absolutely crazy to the point that they realise the group will actually do better if they leave you to make your own decisions. You know, that could work but it's not ideal as the first step you know, leave it as a last resort try everything else first. But yeah, if all else fails, just ignore exactly what they're saying. Do the complete opposite

Ian: 19:52

should you wish so another one to do is going on from my first point, let's explain why why you want to do something different in Did you know they might even actually hear you out and realise that you could have a better idea or just a completely different, equally good idea going on to the table, and again, engage that in the group discussion. So between you it's a group decision, not just one person Leading the Leading arraigns.

Jason: 20:18

Yeah, as we said, cooperative games. That's the whole purpose of the game. So that's a good one. The other thing is ask other players for their input. Now, one thing that could happen with this is if you do that, they may will try and interrupt at this point, it is time to put the big boots on and tell them to stop, tell them to stop, and that you want to hear other people's ideas before you make the final decision. It's not ideal, it does, it does require you to, like I said, Put the big boy boots on. And, you know, hold up a stop sign, stand up for yourself. But yeah, that is a very good option. And it usually does the trick. So this is another thing. And this is more for people that are in the same sort of positions as myself in em where your club organiser, a game night host or even another player in the game in question, it can be quite intimidating to really try and step in and handle quarterbacks in your group. But what we personally do in this situation, there's a couple of things you can do. This one isn't aimed specifically at tackling the quarterback. And this is actually helping the player who is having their turns taken for them. And that is directly ask them what they are thinking. If the player isn't feeling very confident in their thinking, they may not want to offer up their thoughts to the group, as Ian said earlier, just by asking them, you are showing them that you value their opinion. And you can help them to get that opinion out there just by creating that safe space for them to talk. And again, if the quarterbacking person wants to try and get involved, just ask them nicely to be quiet. Well, this person is talking.

Ian: 22:06

This also leads on to our next point, which is to just outright tell the quarterback to back off. We've had to do this, unfortunately. And then he again, where you can see people getting irritated, but not wanting to upset the applecart as it were. So, you know, it may get can get to the point where someone has to step up and actually say something, you know, can we all have a chance to think and we all have a chance to play? You know, make them realise that they're actually causing a problem, you know, and upsetting people?

Jason: 22:38

Yeah. This is, again, speaking from experience, this is probably one of the hardest ones to do. But also one of the most effective try, if you can to take the quarterbacking offender, shall we say aside, maybe under the guise of let's go to the kitchen and get a drink, to take them away from the rest of the group and just talk to them about it. Again, don't try and get all up in their face, don't talk down to them or be condescending or anything like that. It just talks to them on the level. Explain what what it's doing to the group. Because as we said before, they may not even know that they're doing it. And that might be enough to get them to, to calm down just that little bit. So yeah, I mean, that that's how I would personally deal with them if we if we saw it happening, because it very rarely happens to us. Personally,

Ian: 23:31

that has happened before.

Jason: 23:33

It has it has indeed,

Ian: 23:35

these are done.

Jason: 23:37

So yeah, even some of the most seasoned players get quarterbacked occasionally. But how can you avoid being caught about yourself straight from the off? Like, if you never want it to happen to you? Do we have any suggestions of how you could avoid it? So this

Ian: 23:53

came up with them earlier, sort of the ways we're looking at it. So first things first, you know, give suggestions to other people only as they ask for it. So that sort of thing. Don't take control. You know, a lot of the issues with our games that people have bring out the whole thing of quarterbacking is an imbalance in players opinions and players input into the game.

Jason: 24:15

The next one will be actually to provide more than one opinion, or one option, so provide more than one option. Because these games have multiple ways multiple paths that you can go down that will eventually lead to victory. It doesn't have to be one way or the highway. So yeah, it doesn't hurt to provide multiple options

Ian: 24:36

and accept that it's okay to lose. It's a game at the end of the day and in these sort of games are winning or losing as a team.

Jason: 24:42

Yeah, exactly. And there's much more fun in losing. As experienced gamers one thing I like to say is is rather essential. And that is to let people make the mistakes, because the best way for them to learn is to make mistakes and move on. So yeah Letting people make their mistakes and learn is the best thing any experienced player can do. Especially if you've done the right thing in providing the suggestions. As long as you're not demanding they take it. It's the right right course of action.

Ian: 25:14

And again, ask questions instead of giving directions. As I said earlier, if you're not, if you don't think someone's making a very clever move, ask them to explain why try to understand where they're coming from, you know, don't tell them this is the only thing you can do. Or you could do this or something, let them come up with it, ask them questions about why, what they need to do, why they think that's the right thing to do. And then would they like any other suggestions, you know, that's still gives you options to let them know this stuff to be done. But it lets them take some sort of control on what's going on.

Jason: 25:45

Now, this one is actually real, I suppose we'll say it's an easy one, it's pretty easy to actually see when someone isn't having fun. And if you notice that someone isn't having fun, it's time to start asking questions why that might be? It could be because they're not enjoying the game. Is that the game's fault? Or is it because they're being quarterback? Is it because you're quarterbacking them yourself? It's just easy to ask yourself the question, is this something I have done or something that I can fix? When you see that the group or an individual person is not enjoying their time playing a tabletop game?

Ian: 26:23

Yep. And then the last one is to ask your group is to let them let them tell you if you end up quarterbacking, this most definitely applies to when teaching games. Because a good example in teaching a car game the first round or two, you are probably going to take control. Because you're going to have to explain what the options are. Explain why you think particular ones may be better or not, or when other options may be useful. You know, you've got to try and get the game in depth people to understand what's going on to make their own decisions, that you've got to let go of that you got to let those reins be passed around. You know, if you just keep that to yourself, then you will become the quarterback.

Jason: 27:02

Yeah. So yeah, I think I think we've we've made our point on this one. You know, court quarterbacking in tabletop games is often done with the best intentions. More often than not best intentions, but it can have the most catastrophic failures as well. Yeah.

Ian: 27:21

A good example was a game of fan authorising that I played back in the days at pound Hill, board gamers, were literally we were playing a four player game, and three of us got up from the table and left, because we actually dealt with a lot of these options on telling the quarterback that they were doing it saying we were getting fed up people getting bored. And then we just went now you know what I'm done. Because, you know, and that's the bad side of it all. And that's the, that's what happens if we don't can't contain the problem or deal with the problem. You know, and again, it takes everyone involved to realise and work out what's right at the end of the day, that particular game, it wasn't the most, you know, the right thing to do was to stop. None of us were having fun. So why keep going?

Jason: 28:01

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. None of us were playing the game that was that. That was why we weren't having fun. Yeah. So yeah, as Ian said, its best intentions can sometimes have disastrous consequences. So, you know, all the quarterback really wants is they want to win the game. And ultimately, they want to help their other players. But yeah, there is a difference between helping other players and playing for them. So try letting them know, as it's just said, it's not always a guarantee. But I would say 80 to 90% of the time, these quarterbacking players don't even know they're doing it. Yeah, just bear that in mind. Be civil. We're all adults at the end of the day. We should be in fifth in physical form. We're all adults. But yeah, just bear in mind, guys, it doesn't hurt to be nice rise above it, and just get it across. We're all here to have fun. And if, if we're not all having fun, then we're not playing a game. So guys, yes. That is our discussion on quarterbacking in tabletop gaming. We hope that if, you know basically if you ever come into contact with something like this, we hope that what we have said does help you. Is there any techniques that some of you that may have had this have come up with that we haven't mentioned we would be really interested to hear them just let us know on on any of the social media websites the links to which will be in the podcast description or you can search on any of them by searching for Meeple Minded Media. You can find us on our Discord server which again The link is in the description for that. But other than that we're going to hand over to our man in the new shed and his faithful pet rubber duck Brian

Paul: 30:19

Ah ha you're dead my go What do you mean I've got work to do. This is my work is called research my little yellow friend. Well, seen as Space Invaders the boardgame finally turned up this week, I thought I'd better introduce you to what the fuss is all about. What do you mean the graphics are rubbish? This was the height of technology back in the day. Well, I'll say day 40 odd years ago to be exact. Yeah, no, nearly as long as we've been waiting for this Kickstarter to prevail. Well, it's been a good 12/13 months since it should have been here. Oh, throw a global pandemic into the mix too. Yeah, you're thinking of three peer. We mentioned it a few months back. Yes, that did only take a month to fulfil after the campaign ended. Well, you see, it's all swings and roundabouts really. And now with that containerships stuck in the Suez Canal. We may be waiting a little longer for any more Kickstarters coming in from China. Say that we've got plenty to play with till then what Space Invaders and threepio here also got red rising I picked up from the sorting office yesterday together with Marvel smash up and DCs at dark nights metal deckbuilder already here after UPS losing the bloody things. Oh, and canvas should be here. By the end of the week, customs apparently pulled their fingers out their bums, and finally got the shipment cleared. So we've got plenty of games heading into the bank holiday weekend to contend with you better get on YouTube and start learning the rules. Whilst I read out this week's news. Yeah, you go and do that. The first couple of stories come to us from Plaid Hat Games this week. This is Plaid Hat Games creation in 2009. They have brought us fantastic titles, such as stuffed fables, mice and mystics dead of winter forgotten waters, summoner wars, ashes reborn, Spectre ops and neon Gods Plaid Hat Games a US based tabletop games publisher was originally founded in 2009. But in 2015, asmodee acquired both Plaid hat games and z man games. But back in February played at games head of studio and founder Colby Dortch reached an agreement with asmodee and reacquire the independent rights to the plaid hat games brand and too many, but not all of its current and past titles, as they retain the rights to publish the following game title date of winter racks on mice and mystics stuffed fables, Aftermath and battle lands with dead of winter racks are now being published and supported by Fantasy Flight games, and z man games taking control of mice and mystics stuffed fables are the map Barrowlands with both fantasy flight and z man games publishers remaining part of the aspartate group Colby commented these past years with the asmodee group have been amazing. I am excited to continue to lead plaid hat games into the future. I'm thankful to the many kind and creative people I've had the opportunity to work with asmodee and look forward to continuing our relationships with asmodee distribution units throughout the world. And Steve Horvath, head of publishing asmodee in North America commented I'm thrilled that this opportunity has worked out for Colby, I am excited to see what they do will remain at their side as a strong long term partner for distribution just goes to show that although asmodee seems to be absorbing each and every publisher of light that some can also head back out on their own. Which segways us nicely to the next story. Yeah, no, Ian seems to use that metaphor quite a lot. Oh, well, that being said, plaid hat games support summoner wars, and this summer sees a launch of its second edition and its new online counterpart for those not in the no summoner wars is a fully expandable tactical duelling car game, and with the launch of its second edition, it will feature updated versions of your beloved factions along with exciting new ones ready to join the battle. And now with two great ways to play summoner wars second edition can be played in person with physical cards or online with a new browser based app summoner wars online or indeed both. With new artwork and perfected rule system this edition is guaranteed to delight both new and old fans like summoner wars puts you in the role of a powerful summoner in control of a unique army dedicated to taking control of the war torn planet of authorea displaying your tactical prowess by summoning units to your gates. outmanoeuvring your opponent and cutting down the enemy summoner to claim your victory. Be wary though the enemy will take advantage of every opportunity they find to destroy you and your army of countless units a wildfire it spells and abilities and the option to build your own decks. This all makes for a game sure to entertain you play of the play, but you don't have to wait until August to experience the new second edition as summoner wars online has an alpha demo available for you to play right now as either the faction of cave goblins or breakers you can play solo against Doug the AI or via multiplayer with a friend. So head on over to play tat games website for links and more information. summoner wars online will be identical to the physical game once it's released and will include all factions from the master set when it launches in August 2021. The app will also be updated as new factions are least free and and all the Pokemon fans out there. News of a newly revealed sword or shield elite trainer box plus is going to slaughter me from mispronouncing these names but sec alien or summon centre or Zen or summon centre. Yeah, I probably butchered those. Anyway, in both these new elite trainer boxes. The protagonists are featured in a golden card form with a black and gold accessories that match. They also include a player's guide that reviews the first year of sword and shield series expansions and promotion cards. As mentioned a special box contains gold versions of the protagonist and a player's guide. It's one of the six metal damage counter dice of metal coin featuring the protagonists 65 card sleeves featuring artwork from the set a set of metal markers 12 Pokemon TCG booster packs from the sword and shield series rules booklet and a code card for the Pokemon Trading Card Game online. The sets are set to be released around the last week of April both copies of the sword and shield elite trainer box plus will retail for about 65 pounds or $60. So get in contact with your FL GS in order to get your pre orders in and we're heading on over to Kickstarter now. And the first one up this week is Holmes up the Lacuna Coil official card game buy lab massive is for three to nine players takes about 14 minutes to play. It's for eight years and over and ends on April the 13th. The base level blacked out at 21 pounds or 24 euros gives you the base game and all unlocked stretch goals at 26 pounds or 30 euros gets you the game and the Lacuna Coil expansion plus three promo gadgets gameboard flag and unlocked stretch goals. Welcome to the most action packed party card game ever horns up inspired by the amazing atmospheres the most exciting and overwhelming concerts of all likely Italian heavy metal bound lacuna coils live events. Whether you're a coiler or a gamer. Whether you have headbanging friends or children without horns up this is perfect for you. It's got a super fast setup, easy to learn and with every rule in the form of an icon avoiding the need to do much reading. You're late, your audience has already heaving and you're at the back, you need to force yourself through the audience to the front of the stage to fully embracing the inebriating atmosphere of the band. The game's expansion was developed hand in hand with a Lacuna Coil band asking them about the most awkward and exciting situations happening during their concerts around the world. a result of their tales has become a deck of cards they're extremely heavy. For this reason, they decided to pair these episodes with emotional friendship threatening game mechanics playing with this deck you will have a chance to unleash your wrath against a single opponent loading them with endless debuffs or spread your evil ways on every opponent. This may call for revenge from your opponents but keep head banging and keep your horns up. Our next game is called city killers by barely suitable games and it's one not for the fainthearted it's for one to six players takes 90 to 180 minutes to complete is for 14 years and over and it ends on April the 16th you can pledge the trophy hunter level for the base game at 26 pounds or $35 the quarry level 33 pounds or$45 lets your likeness become a prey card within every game purchase or go for the prestige level lets you become a killer within your copy of the game and the possibility of being in every produce that set along with five other backers and this will set you back 48 pounds or$65 Quad City killers murderers fun for the whole family courts he killers is created in the style and 80s board game but with a bit of a dark side. Yeah bit more than that players come Pete a serial killers travelling between the Quad Cities and dispatching prey. In an attempt to gain notoriety. Each prey ID card has a defence level notoriety score on upon successful attacks, players keep these cards as their trophies play continues until one player reaches the peak of their dexterity scale. At this point, all players total their notoriety points and the player with the highest total wins on your turn perform three actions out of five, which can include either hunting, travelling, attacking, playing scenario cards, or discarding cards for your hand. But as players rack up kills using their innate abilities, modifying resource cards and skill rolls, their dexterity increases, but so does the heat from the law enforcement are your tails. Lastly, this week, we have a mass and it's the first game by dark frontier games based here in the UK. This one one to six players takes an hour to play his for 14 years and over and ends on April 25. With one pledge level 35 pounds is not too bad. A mass Deep Space mining crews fight to gather resources on a hostile alien planet. The goal of the game is to complete your mining contracts while collecting the most valuable resources. You're fighting for resources scattered across the planet. raid resources from other crew encampments. But keep a lookout for the hostile alien Raiders each turn new resources appear across the planet and the players secretly plan their crew actions. After all the crew placements are revealed mining crews fight each other for the resources defeated crew members are placed on the wound tracker where in time they will recover. Alien Raiders roam around the map stopping players mining locations and attacking crewing cameras for the crew can also fight these aliens to gain new action cards which they can use in future battles. The game ends when one player has succeeded in filling their base with resources, the resources that are encountered up and then mining crew with the highest value of resources wins. Fortunately, there's no big news from any of the big shows this week's will just need me to tell you about all our local groups. But that doesn't mean they're just local groups for local people. Anyone can come and join the groups for their weekly shenanigans and let's just say there's a lot of shenanigans Wednesday evening is gaming run by the comic shop in Crawley and hosted by ours truly Jason is run by the comic shop Discord server with gamers playing on a variety of platforms. So head on over to the shops social media pages for more information. Thursday is a usual word and ballgame us and Lewis boardgame, cafe groups on zoom to go check out their socials. And of course Monday's is Jason Ian and the Crawley gaming community over on their Discord server, and usually tabletop simulator. So Look after yourselves. meeples stay safe. Keep those dice rolling the card shuffling. And we'll be right here for you next week. it's goodbye from the duck. And it's a goodbye from me till next week, hands off. It's my go.

Jason: 43:02

Thank you very much for that poul. And thank you, Brian, for the news. And that is it for another week from us. How do you think it went this weekend? It was a very, very controversial one that we had to very much watch our tongues on, I think,

Ian: 43:14

yeah, it's difficult because we don't want to put the gaming industry in a bad light or any particular people in a bad light. You know, we've known people throughout our time during the gaming industry. You know, and it's very difficult, especially when you want examples of things not to highlight particular people or, you know, single anyone out because people change. And when you realise, you know, as we pointed out is some a lot of the time people don't even realise they're doing half these things. But it can kill an entire games night when it's happened.

Jason: 43:43

Yeah, no, I completely agree on that one. And especially speaking from experience when it comes to the teaching of games, as well, it's very easy to accidentally switch from teaching to quarterbacking. So if you are someone who regularly teaches games, take it from our experience, it is something you really have to be careful of. Just make sure that when you're teaching, you're not playing the game for those people. Again, we're not teaching you to suck eggs. We're just trying to make sure that as many people fall in love with this hobby as possible. So yeah. I mean, the real question here today in is, you know, we've personally been talking for about 3030 minutes about this in that time. Have you back to Robinson Crusoe?

Ian: 44:32

I have not I'm not gonna lie I'm actually on the page looking at it at this very minute.

Jason: 44:38

It's almost as if I know you really well, isn't it?

Ian: 44:44

If I didn't own the game, and I know there is an upgrade kit, then there probably wouldn't have even contemplated, you know, just throwing money at it but I have to do some research and work out where I am at the moment.

Jason: 44:54

Yeah, yeah, it's wise though. Don't dry dive into something if if you don't have to.

Ian: 45:00

I mean, technically does it cost us kickstart in something if it's not on Kickstarter?

Jason: 45:04

This is very true. This is very true. I think hey, nothing you've just come up with a with a new podcast episode right there you say, Oh, we still Kickstarter addicts if we don't use Kickstarter, crowdfunding attics, it's all the same thing.

Ian: 45:25

You were the last one to crowd something may not me. Oh, this

Jason: 45:29

is true. This is very true. Well, we won't talk about that because we got to say goodbye. I'm sure everyone is ready to go. So yeah, we will say goodbye. And I will avoid talking about Kickstarter for another week. Have you got anything you want to add this weekend? No, I'm good. Awesome stuff. Thank you very much for joining us guys. We are ready to go. Get it? Yes. Ian's gonna boot up Val Haim about now I'm going to probably start opening some Kickstarter boxes here. Yeah, thank you very much for joining us. It's been a pleasure. As always. We will see you next Tuesday for another tabletop gaming podcast episode. Yeah, goodbye. Thank you very much for joining us game safe. We'll see you then.

Ian: 46:17

Stay well say stay safe. Goodbye.

Jason: 46:19

Bye.